Gamers Lounge

Gamers Lounge Ep. 78 – Don’t need no stinking Schedules

by on Jul.29, 2013, under Interviews, Podcast, Wyrd - Malifaux

Gamers-Lounge-logoGamers Lounge Ep. 78 – Don’t need no stinking Schedules

OK, not really. On a more serious note this is the promised show where I am joined by Andrew Weakland to discuss his views on Malifaux V2. He is much more positive than Spencer and I are and brings up some excellent points. Did he change my whole stance and am I in love with M2E now? Well, I did use M2E a couple times during the show, so I guess you need to listen and see.

This is another 2 hour rambling conversation with no breaks, so no real good places to note specific content. Eventually we will get back to content marks in the show notes. Hell, eventually we will get back to a regular schedule!

Enjoy!

 


9 Comments for this entry

  • Dave Munro

    So much I disagree with. Recent Wyrd minis I’ve seen have been awful. I am very disappointed with the Relic hunter box. The detail is very poor.
    I think my main problem with M2e is highlighted here: I don’t want Malifaux for tournaments. I think that the idea of competition goes completely against the aim of Malifaux: Character driven story telling games. The simplification of the characters is terrible for that. Malufaux isn’t what I bought into any more. More so because I completely agree with your view on the new art (as mentioned last episode). I am buying up metals I might need to keep playing because I won’t buy more Malifaux plastics unless quality significantly improves.
    Frankly…I also find myself having real trouble with the community being extremely hostile towards those with anything bad to say re M2e and the company seemingly disorganised and shoddily run (updates vua Eric’s twitter. Websites not updated. Etc)
    I also think the kicking of Warmachine is based on that it ISN’T that. I’m loving WM just now. It has imo the best minis around. I’m having lots of fun with it. In Europe we only play painted though. It has all the depth I want and the 2013 Steamroller pack gives plenty of interesting scenarios and I see plenty of different stuff being played. The balance isn’t perfect but writing it off as Rock, Paper, Scissors is unfair.
    This was easily the best review of M2e so far as it was the first Good cop-Bad cop duscussion. Shame you both felt the need to kick out at another game I love and that I’m still very pessimistic about M2e.

    • WAnderson

      I would not take it as kicking (lashing) out Dave. I have a great deal of Hordes models but just do not love the game. I do not find it to be as engaging or as good as Malifaux Classic, and one of the reasons was the one I mentioned. Now, I am finding some similar feeling toward V2 (as I mentioned) and while there are several points as to why the corallary is being drawn, I still cannot put my finger exactly on a well explained reason why they feel so similar to me.
      That said, I dislike more than 75% of the models PP puts out. I know many people like them, but then again many many people like space marines which I think look bad as well. Amusingly, some of the asthetic choices in WM/H and in 40K are the same things I dislike.
      Back to Wyrd, I have seen your comments about the relic hunters box previously. I have not mentioned it because my Relic Hunters box was really nicely put together and I had no issues with it. Some of the Wastrels and Sirdar are some of my more enjoyable Malifaux Plastics to assemble and paint. Overall I have been pretty happy with the Malifaux Plastics, with some specific issues. The small pieces are a PITA, and the Jakob Lynch box was not great. The softness I have heard mentioned in features and such was only found in the Lynch box for me.
      As for the community, Spencer and I need to figure out if that topic still makes sense to discuss. I agree that the community has become crazy hostile lately. I also agree with you on how Wyrd is representing themselves.

      • mattbird

        While I don’t dislike the new plastics, I also feel like the detail is not as crisp as it could be. They also have the problem of being “true” 28mm, so the faces are damn hard to paint.

    • caen

      For
      me similarities between Warmachine and M2E are more about amount of rules on
      models stats cards – average solo in Warmachine have as many rules as henchmen
      in M2E. The game is very different as far as mechanics, amount of models and
      scenarios are concerned.

      But
      saying that “M2E is similar to WM” may serve another purpose – it is a first
      step on the road of converting WM players to play M2E, if games are so similar why
      do not play both?

      But
      I don’t think many WM&H players will be interesting in M2E – I as a WM
      player was interested in Malifaux 1.5 becouse it was more deeper (with more
      option provided by single model) game than WM – now there is no difference in depth
      between WM and M2E. IMO Warmachine and Hordes is a GREAT game with excellent rules
      for casual and tournament play, with excellent models and PP really cares about
      Gamers.

  • Cheatedfatesjoe

    Bill and Weakland, really enjoyed the show. Weakland brought a ton of points that I wholeheartedly agree with on. I contend that yes the challenge is greater now and that is something I love. I also contend that there is also a diminished skill gap atm because the game is new. Within a year you’ll see true skill differential within me2. I’ve played a ton with it, and I’m starting to find the edges and over time you’ll see as in most systems where randomness is minimized that skill with in the game becomes more important. What was skill differentiating in v1 isn’t the same in v2. Until people have this stuff in the hands for a while we won’t have a true skill gap yet. And no being good or bad at v1 has no barring on your ability in v2. It is a vary similar game but it is different. I’m very much in agreement with weakland this is the first time I feel like I’m playing miniature game chess and I love it. As far as comparison to Warmachine, this is an area that is hard to nail down. I love warmachine its very fun I don’t play it regularly and its not my top game. I think weakland hit on part of it is that both systems are a bit flatter and more built on the I’m an errant I run up and tarpit you but if you ask me to go to your opponents zone and disrupt I’ll fail miserable. Or every piece in me2 & warmachine has a job and contributes to your overall ability to succeed or fail by doing its job and its optimal path is obvious and deviation from that job is bad. In v1 models tended to have a specific job but also had a lot of corner case abilities that made them flexible jack of all trades in some cases. In others it was something that would never be used. This greater focus that me2 has in designing to a role is where a lot of the parallels to warmachine I draw are from. There is still order of operations in me2 just as in warmachine but that has existed from the beginning of the game. And there is now greater certainty that because of the changes to stones in me2 stats have greater validity and masters are more vulnerable. However unlike warmachine the game is built on scenario and killing a master can actually be the wrong choice in game and lose you it. Additionally there is nothing like a feat in malifaux and additionally the you go I go nature of the activation sequence helps mitigate the activate everything and I roll awesome and your armies dead go.

    • Andrew Weakland

      I think one thing I didn’t get a chance to elaborate on is that many of my gripes with Warmachine are specifically related to tournament play and general ‘Page 5’ douchiness. The game itself is streamlined and flavorful and good for casual play. It will forever be hampered by caster kill and lacking you-go-I-go IMO though. Then again it’s not really a skirmish game anymore is it…

      • Cheatedfatesjoe

        we agree on those points entirely. I was more attempting to explain what I see similar in the 2 systems which are different and distinct but the parts bill dislikes about the points there similar I wholeheartedly enjoy. Killing the king is a mechanic that hampers the game just as you say. It is really a system (warmachine) that I’ve had purely dissatisfying experiences in because I’m playing scenario and all of sudden theres an angle I missed and my caster is splat and the game is done. Its fun and all, but much like the old stone mechanic for me the caster kill is that random backdoor strategy that shouldn’t exist in a competitive game.

  • mattbird

    I would just like to strongly voice my objection at you referring to me as a newb. You can kiss my trophied arse. 😉

  • Troy Perez

    When Andrew made the comment along the lines of “you will never find a miniatures game with as much character as Malifaux” I immediately wanted to go out and find another game. lol.

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